A “Worldly” Church?
It’s funny how people separate “Christian” and “secular.” In the previous church my wife and I led, a gentleman left the church because we offered dance instruction in our performing arts program. “I won’t be a part of a church that has anything to do with dancing!” he said. And he left.
The truth of the matter is that dancing belongs to God. If anything belongs to Satan it’s only because he stole it or tricked someone into thinking it’s his. I laugh when people suggest that Christians are “copying” secular forms of art. Who are they kidding? Those art forms belong to God and should be given back to Him as an expression of worship and thanksgiving.
So who says you can’t rock-n-roll in church . . . or rap . . . or dance . . . for the glory of God?
Some have suggested that the church is becoming too “worldly” and watered-down. The problem is that they generally make those assumptions based on what they see people wear, what music they enjoy and how much technology they incorporate into the worship gatherings rather than genuinely looking at people’s relationship with Christ and how they live it out.
I believe that the church needs to look like the world. (Wow! A church like that might even be normal!) In doing so, I believe we would help the world see God. We would make the secular sacred. No separation between “secular” and “sacred” . . . it’s all sacred . . . we give it to Him for His glory and honor.
Any thoughts?
The truth of the matter is that dancing belongs to God. If anything belongs to Satan it’s only because he stole it or tricked someone into thinking it’s his. I laugh when people suggest that Christians are “copying” secular forms of art. Who are they kidding? Those art forms belong to God and should be given back to Him as an expression of worship and thanksgiving.
So who says you can’t rock-n-roll in church . . . or rap . . . or dance . . . for the glory of God?
Some have suggested that the church is becoming too “worldly” and watered-down. The problem is that they generally make those assumptions based on what they see people wear, what music they enjoy and how much technology they incorporate into the worship gatherings rather than genuinely looking at people’s relationship with Christ and how they live it out.
I believe that the church needs to look like the world. (Wow! A church like that might even be normal!) In doing so, I believe we would help the world see God. We would make the secular sacred. No separation between “secular” and “sacred” . . . it’s all sacred . . . we give it to Him for His glory and honor.
Any thoughts?
posted by Bret at
11:40 PM
5 Comments:
Do I think we can learn things from the "secular" and apply it to the church's approach to ministry...YES. Do I think we set too many limitations on what is "acceptable", Yes. But we do need to be careful. I agree that the ordinary, the familiar can be transformed into the sacred. I believe Jesus met people where they were. If he could lay down a rhyme I bet Jesus would be known as Rap Master J. BUT, he would know when it came time to bring it back to the basics...back to the Word. Even the traditional (which is now deemed "sacred") can just be activity if the Word is not broken and shared at those times.
By
Nicole_Marietta, at 2:33 PM
James 1:27 (New International Version)
27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
James 4:4 (New International Version)
4You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
1 Peter 2:11 (New International Version)
11Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.
1 John 2:15 (New International Version)
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:17 (New International Version)
17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 3:1 (New International Version)
1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
"Some have suggested that the church is becoming too “worldly” and watered-down. The problem is that they generally make those assumptions based on what they see people wear, what music they enjoy and how much technology they incorporate into the worship gatherings rather than genuinely looking at people’s relationship with Christ and how they live it out."
This is a totally inaccuarate statement. People think the church is becoming watered down because the church is becoming worried about what the world deems acceptable. The church is losing its identity. The church is becoming watered down because its afraid to proclaim Jesus Christ flat out. We have create a show. So the love of Jesus is a show. Have we traded the altar for a stage?
"I believe that the church needs to look like the world."
That is a sad statement. It is really sad considering all the verses that I have found concerning this says the exact opposite.
You can have any kind of church you want, but you have to remember why you are having church; FOR GOD! You can't place the emphasis on what your church looks like, in doing that your are taking the focus off God.
So I tell you what. Even though we have enough clubs, movie theaters,bars, etc.; Let's go ahead and make the church another.
Lets just make a big party out of jesus. Well drink and smoke and dance our socks off. I mean this is what will please us. Please us. It's about us. It's about the world.
CHURCH IS NOT FOR GOD, ITS FOR US, WE JUST HAPPEN TO INCLUDE GOD TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE WE ARE HAVING CHURCH TO SAY WE ARE REACHING THE WORLD.
I have one question to ask to you and any proponents of this; Is it really its your idea. Its really what you want to do. Its your own personal preference.
What about if I have a way that I think God has told me church should be. Who's right me or you?
God will never contradict His self, so show me where he says the church should look like the world.
Even the elect shall be fooled.
By
Anonymous, at 5:59 PM
Anonymous,
I think you’re missing my point. Why does “church” have to be about God? Should not our entire life be about God? Should church not be for the world? Of course it should . . . it is not those who are well that need a doctor. . . .
I’m not suggesting that we create a smoking section in our church (although that’s not a bad idea) and condone sinful actions. What I am suggesting is that we tear down the barriers that create “us” and “them” and stand inside our buildings and say “if you want to know Christ, come over hear and be like us.” Jesus was called “drunkard” and a “glutton” because the religious “right” disapproved of and misunderstood his mission.
Yes, the Christ-like life is a holy life . . . that life should be consistent . . . everyday. In that sense, every day would be Sunday. We worship through our job, we serve by helping others, and our life is a life dedicated to Jesus . . . everyday of the week. We are the same person on Monday or Tuesday that we are on Sunday. No pretending. No faking.
As far as the church looking like the world . . . Imagine going to church on Sunday and the church band performing “Show Me How To Live” by Audioslave. Part of the chorus says:
“Hey hey I said near as I can figure you gave me life now nhow me how to live . . .”
The teacher/preacher uses these lyrics as an intro to discuss the life and way of Jesus. This is an example of a secular song being made sacred. Whatever the song may mean, we interpret it into and communicate spiritual truths and realities.
What will happen the next time that song is heard on the radio? More than likely, the song will remind the person of church and what the preacher said about the song and how it related to the life of Christ.
But then again, maybe I’m just fooling myself.
By
Bret, at 1:51 PM
Bret,
You are on the ball. My suggestion is that those of us who believe that God created the world and said, "It is bad!" should lay down our Platonic commentaries and realize that God delights in watching us enjoy ourselves, including dancing.
Plato brought about dualism, which states that the physical is bad and the soul is good, therefore anything that is not spiritual is sinful. Here is where the Greek world influenced us so heavily that we have begun to write songs with words such as, "Some glad morning, when this life is over, I'll fly away." Enjoying the world is not in the plan, as the Greeks have taught us to believe.
Marvin R. Wilson explains it wonderfully.
"Physical appetites and pleasures are considered unworthy indulgences which foster entrapment, so the body must be policed by rules. Thus one must seek to restrict or restrain oneself from, to deny or give up, anything enjoyable which may prove a hindrance to the cultivation of one's "spiritual" life. The abstention from various physical and material pleasures through dietary limitations, self-imposed silence, forfeiting possessions, social seclusion, glorification of hardships, and other austere observances are thought to bring mastery over one's body."
One example of God encouraging us to enjoy ourselves is found in Deuteronomy 14:22-26. Here God tells his people to tithe their produce, and if they live too far away, then sell a tenth of their produce and use the money to purchase, food, strong drink, and whatever they choose; eat and drink as a family in the presence of their God and enjoy their selves.
The Greek influence over Hebraic teachings or “Hellenism” was already making its impact on the people of God even before the time of Jesus. This is why some Jews would get so frustrated when Jesus ate with sinners. Some even called Jesus a drunkard and a glutton because this was a common criticism from the Sadducees against the Pharisees, which Jesus was most closely aligned.
My suggestion: Don't wait until this life is over to fly away!
Party on!
Forever learning,
By
Johnny, at 10:03 AM
Nicole,
Thanks for commenting . . . I agree that we need to be careful . . . we especially need to be careful that we don’t get bogged down with legalism.
Johnny,
You’re right about dualism . . . the church culture has been created as a result. One of the characteristics of the “emerging church” is the elimination of this philosophy.
Blessings,
Bret
By
Bret, at 9:43 PM
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