Is "church" a waste of time? (Part 2)
In my previous post I challenged the idea of “church” and suggested that we put more emphasis on training and preparing for ministry and less emphasis trying to increase church attendance. After some dialogue, on this site and my Xanga (www.xanga.com/armytalk), I fleshed out the idea that there is a difference between personal transformation and religious practice. Those who are saturated with the church culture may have difficulty separating these two. Personal transformation that leads to community transformation is what we’re after. In order for this to happen we have to connect with the culture God is calling us to reach.
My church is in the process of developing two new ministries. One of those is a teen ministry that will (at least I think this is where God’s going) connect with the “rap” culture. The mission of the ministry will probably read something like this: “The mission of (whatever we call it) is to glorify God by engaging and challenging the youth culture to bring spiritual revival, social reform, and racial reconciliation through alternative forms of art.” (If you have any suggestions on this mission statement please let me know, I would love to hear them. Also, any ideas on a name for this ministry?) Spiritual revival, social reform, and racial reconciliation will be the focus of this ministry.
The avenue in which we would pursue these goals would be through “alternative forms of art.” My vision is to create a venue in which teens & young adults can express themselves through rap/music, dance, even poetry if it comes up. This ministry would be modeled after “The Loaf” which is a ministry of the Salvation Army in Lawrenceville, Georgia.
The Loaf
The Loaf, rather than connecting with the rap culture, connects with the “hardcore” culture. They have shows (or gigs/concerts) once a month on Friday night that attracts more than 300 kids. At their last event they had around 450. The Friday night events evolved into “Loaf Worship” which takes place on Sunday night and connects with the same culture. Loaf Worship, which just began three or four weeks ago, is having an attendance of somewhere between 40 and 50. Most of those are the result of the Friday night gigs.
The Loaf Format
The Friday night gigs usually consist of around six local bands. They will sometimes bring in a “headliner” to generate interest. (At the first event Mortal Treason was the headliner.) Each band, with the exception of the headliner, will normally play a 15 to 20 minute set. Doors open around 6:30 p.m., the show begins at 7:00 p.m. and goes ‘till around 11:00 p.m. to mid-night. It’s $5.00 at the door with free snacks. It’s awesome. Here are some photos off their web-site to help you get an idea of the atmosphere.
My church is in the process of developing two new ministries. One of those is a teen ministry that will (at least I think this is where God’s going) connect with the “rap” culture. The mission of the ministry will probably read something like this: “The mission of (whatever we call it) is to glorify God by engaging and challenging the youth culture to bring spiritual revival, social reform, and racial reconciliation through alternative forms of art.” (If you have any suggestions on this mission statement please let me know, I would love to hear them. Also, any ideas on a name for this ministry?) Spiritual revival, social reform, and racial reconciliation will be the focus of this ministry.
The avenue in which we would pursue these goals would be through “alternative forms of art.” My vision is to create a venue in which teens & young adults can express themselves through rap/music, dance, even poetry if it comes up. This ministry would be modeled after “The Loaf” which is a ministry of the Salvation Army in Lawrenceville, Georgia.
The Loaf
The Loaf, rather than connecting with the rap culture, connects with the “hardcore” culture. They have shows (or gigs/concerts) once a month on Friday night that attracts more than 300 kids. At their last event they had around 450. The Friday night events evolved into “Loaf Worship” which takes place on Sunday night and connects with the same culture. Loaf Worship, which just began three or four weeks ago, is having an attendance of somewhere between 40 and 50. Most of those are the result of the Friday night gigs.
The Loaf Format
The Friday night gigs usually consist of around six local bands. They will sometimes bring in a “headliner” to generate interest. (At the first event Mortal Treason was the headliner.) Each band, with the exception of the headliner, will normally play a 15 to 20 minute set. Doors open around 6:30 p.m., the show begins at 7:00 p.m. and goes ‘till around 11:00 p.m. to mid-night. It’s $5.00 at the door with free snacks. It’s awesome. Here are some photos off their web-site to help you get an idea of the atmosphere.
Here’s the question in regards to church: Where does this thing (The Loaf or our new ministry) go? You obviously could add (as they’re doing) a culturally relevant worship and discipleship component. But then what? I mean, think about it . . . What’s the chance of any of these kids finding home in any of our churches? What if they are called to ministry? Does our denomination/organization have a place for them? I guess we do. . .as long as they change and become like us . . . as long as they’re willing to leave their culture and learn a new language.
What happens when a culture or generation arises that does not value our religious traditions and practices? What happens when the people whom we are called to reach does not respect or appreciate our form and expression of worship? What do we do? How do we respond?
Feel free to comment. I’m interested in your response.
Check out The Loaf’s web site for more info at: http://www.attheloaf.com/
(PS If I respond to your comment I will respond on this post.: )
posted by Bret at
11:00 PM
8 Comments:
“The problem in our day, which gives rise to highly questionable church growth methods, is twofold:
On the one hand, we are seeing a waning confidence in the message of the gospel. Even the evangelical church shows signs of losing confidence in the convincing and converting power of the gospel message. That is why increasing numbers of churches prefer sermons on family life and psychological health. We are being overtaken by what Os Guinness calls the managerial and therapeutic revolutions. The winning message, it seems, is the one that helps people to solve their temporal problems, improves their self-esteem and makes them feel good about themselves. In such a cultural climate, preaching on the law, sin and repentance, and the cross has all but disappeared, even in evangelical churches. The church has become "user friendly," "consumer oriented," and as a result evangelical churches are being inundated with "cheap grace" (Bonhoeffer). Today's "gospel" is all too often a gospel without cost, without repentance, without commitment, without discipleship, and thus "another gospel" and accordingly no gospel at all, all traceable to the fact that this is how too many people today have come to believe that the church must be grown.
On the other hand, we are seeing a waning confidence in preaching as the means by which the gospel is to be spread. As a result, preaching is giving way in evangelical churches to multimedia presentations, drama, dance, "sharing times," sermonettes, and "how to" devotionals. Preaching is being viewed increasingly as outdated and ineffective. Business techniques like telemarketing are now popular with the church growth movement. Churches so infected also look to the multiplication of programs to effect their growth. They sponsor conferences and seminars on every conceivable topic under the sun; they subdivide their congregations down into marrieds and singles, single parents and divorced, "thirty-something" and "twenty-something," teens, unemployed, the child-abused and the chemically dependent, attempting to arrange programs for them all. And once a person joins such a church, conventional wisdom has it, the church and the minister must meet his every felt need. Accordingly, ministers have become managers, facilitators, and motivators—everything but heralds of the whole counsel of God—and this all because they have lost confidence in the preaching of God's Word as the primary means for the growth of the church and the individual Christian.
What is the answer? A restored confidence in the Reformed doctrine of the sovereignty of God in salvation!”
— Robert L. Reymond, in A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith
By
Anonymous, at 5:58 PM
Robert,
Thanks for your comments. I understand what you’re saying and agree with most of it. However, I have to ask. . . are you suggesting that if we just “preach the Word” that people will be saved, communities transformed, and our churches will grow? Or is there more to it?
Blessings,
Bret
By
Bret, at 11:09 PM
You want religion? Help the widows and orphans. (James, the original Salvationist)
A meeting time and place does not take the place of the body of Christ living in community reaching out to the lost and serving suffering humanity.
God bless!
Patrick
By
Anonymous, at 4:36 PM
Ok, so I understand the question (I hope). I think our biggest obstacle is being real. I'm not talking about to the Army, to culture, or anything like that...I'm talking about not faking interest in order to get people through your door! I am constantly offended by 40-50 year old officer pretending to be "down" with the teen group. There is a difference in educating yourself about the issues faced in the world today and morphing into a middle aged "teen".
I agree with the first post, we have been consumed with entertaining instead of ministry. Yes, I think we can spread the gospel through music, drama, dance..but what is our intention? Stats or salvation? Crowds or confession? I believe that we need to look at our motivation to any ministry approached (traditional or contemporary)...to obey is better than sacrifice. To follow God's leading...for His glory should be our goal.
By
Nicole_Marietta, at 1:35 PM
Call me Old School but a "Rap" ministry? 8 Mile format? You cite "the Loaf" as your ministry model and I am unsure that is the model you should be striving after. I agree with the previous threads that too much effort is already being done in packaging the gospel in a "Hip/Hop" veneer so as to appear to be "down" with the youth culture when all the while the message of counter culture living i.e. Kingdom living is a radical departure from what our culture has to offer. Inherent to the current "rap" industry is the sense of what is real or geniune. Have you checked the ratings or sells of Christian Rap? Is stink? D.C. Talk never really crossed over. So you delimma or maybe a better word "challenge" is appearing authentic to your audience. You will find youself utimately in a "catch 22" (which by the way is a great book if you have time to read it). You will eventually realize that the power of the gospel is in the power of the Spirit not in how well you "trick" it out. In the end our youth need to experience what it means to be "called out" hence the ekklessia or church. Calling them out by the mystrious power of the gospel is different than enabling them to remain entrenched in their sinful culture "Rap industry".
Just a few observations from someone who has done youth ministry and made the same mistake you are about to make and the same mistake "the loaf" is currently making.
By
Anonymous, at 10:45 PM
Nicole & Anonymous,
Thanks for your comments. You’ve presented some challenging thoughts. But think about this:
How do we love others who are different? How do we genuinely “speak their language” in a way that they can identify with, hear and understand?
What if we simply said to our young people, “We care about you; we value your interests; what’s important to you is important to us.” It’s not about trying to be “down” with young people. It’s about letting them know that they are important and that we value what they value. As such, we give them permission to be who they are and encourage them to pursue their hopes and dreams. It’s in that context that ministry happens. We point them to Jesus and walk with them in their journey.
What if a band from the Loaf makes it? Could they not be the next POD or Chevelle? What if one of our Rappers makes it? Do Christians not need to enter the music force and teach that culture the way of Jesus? The truth is the Loaf is beginning an incredible ministry. As these kids get closer to Jesus, he begins to inspire the content of their music.
We are out to transform lives . . . communities . . . the world . . . in the power and name of Jesus. What I’m purposing is not “the” way to reach kids, it’s “a” way. If it doesn’t work, then I’ve only accomplished what many ministries are already accomplishing.
So my question is this: how do you balance the prophetic delivery of the gospel with a cultural context that is so diverse? We have a motto that says “go for souls and go for the worst.” Who are the worst? Are we presently reaching them? If not why not? Is it because of what we are doing or because of what we aren’t doing? Or could it be both?
Blessings,
Bret
By
Bret, at 11:54 PM
That's what I'm saying, we need to be genuine! Youth will pick up on false vibes a lot quicker than adults...we need to speak the language all cultures and generations know LOVE. The dialect will be different with every age, background, culture, family situation, etc. I love the book "The Five Love Languages". It applies so well to our ministry to all people (regardless of age or culture). To love people is to see them (and treat them) as though they have value...because they do through God's eyes. I guess my question to you is...where do we (or can we) draw the line between being relevant and being "in". Where do we apply the Word to the lives of our people and when is it twisting it to fit the cultural context of today? I believe God works through all means to get His Word across (yes, even rap and hard core metal music)...but we must direct kids to the music and words...and away from the lifestyle that is connected with it culturally (I'm not talking about clothing here...but attitude about self and others).
By
Nicole_Marietta, at 8:30 PM
Nicole,
Good questions . . . these are things I wrestle with. . .
“Where do we (or can we) draw the line between being relevant and being "in"?”
“In” being negative . . . following the latest fad . . . caring more about what the kids think about us than what Jesus is calling us to do. . .
I believe that the line is drawn by the mission. The mission validates the method and establishes benchmarks for measuring success. The mission must be Kingdom focused, driven and have Christ at the center.
The mission cannot be carried out or fulfilled without the application of the Word. The music is only a means . . . it is a tool to point others to Christ and to the application of God’s Word.
People cannot change until they want to change. The challenge (what I think you’re getting at) is to communicate the Gospel so as to include all its challenges and demands and not sell out to a fluffy, no cost, no sacrifice, wimpy Gospel that is really no Gospel at all. How do you do that? I think it’s just like you said . . . be real. When, where and how to communicate that needs to be part of our overall strategy . . . and it is.
Hope this answers the question.
Thanks for commenting. Your thoughts challenge me to look deeper. Thanks!
Blessings,
Bret
By
Bret, at 10:29 PM
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